Comments on: Are Indian high schoolers manning your IBM help desk? http://www.cringely.com/2012/07/23/are-indian-high-schoolers-manning-your-ibm-help-desk?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=are-indian-high-schoolers-manning-your-ibm-help-desk Cringely on technology Tue, 21 May 2013 14:42:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1 By: John Doe http://www.cringely.com/2012/07/23/are-indian-high-schoolers-manning-your-ibm-help-desk#comment-276118 John Doe Wed, 02 Jan 2013 21:28:34 +0000 http://www.cringely.com/?p=4523#comment-276118 Mr Cringley, I work in a GDC and let me tell you that university graduates means "freshers/people fresh out of college with no work experience"

]]> Mr Cringley, I work in a GDC and let me tell you that university graduates means “freshers/people fresh out of college with no work experience”

]]> By: Al Wilson http://www.cringely.com/2012/07/23/are-indian-high-schoolers-manning-your-ibm-help-desk#comment-275484 Al Wilson Sat, 22 Dec 2012 15:41:17 +0000 http://www.cringely.com/?p=4523#comment-275484 As long as the techs deliver polite and fast service, customers should not need to give a shit about whether they are high school graduates or not (after all, the average 14-year-old geek knows more about this stuff than your average MBA graduate, who is usually bone-idle and hates his customers).

]]> As long as the techs deliver polite and fast service, customers should not need to give a shit about whether they are high school graduates or not (after all, the average 14-year-old geek knows more about this stuff than your average MBA graduate, who is usually bone-idle and hates his customers).

]]> By: GFI Norte http://www.cringely.com/2012/07/23/are-indian-high-schoolers-manning-your-ibm-help-desk#comment-274707 GFI Norte Fri, 14 Dec 2012 05:15:21 +0000 http://www.cringely.com/?p=4523#comment-274707 Great delivery. Outstanding arguments. Keep up the great spirit.

]]> Great delivery. Outstanding arguments. Keep up the great spirit.

]]> By: HealthcareIT http://www.cringely.com/2012/07/23/are-indian-high-schoolers-manning-your-ibm-help-desk#comment-265702 HealthcareIT Sun, 21 Oct 2012 14:58:22 +0000 http://www.cringely.com/?p=4523#comment-265702 I really think you're dead wrong on your comment that most western tech support is not college degreed. Most of our internal support teams at GEHC are degreed, experienced professionals. Some, very highly. Now the offshore support? Who knows. The churn rate is horrible, something like 3 mos average stay. they are all jr. or level 1 analysts; the US support is lvl 2,3, or 4

]]> I really think you’re dead wrong on your comment that most western tech support is not college degreed. Most of our internal support teams at GEHC are degreed, experienced professionals. Some, very highly.
Now the offshore support? Who knows. The churn rate is horrible, something like 3 mos average stay. they are all jr. or level 1 analysts; the US support is lvl 2,3, or 4

]]> By: john Doe http://www.cringely.com/2012/07/23/are-indian-high-schoolers-manning-your-ibm-help-desk#comment-263445 john Doe Wed, 03 Oct 2012 06:37:13 +0000 http://www.cringely.com/?p=4523#comment-263445 What a load of rubbish!

]]> What a load of rubbish!

]]> By: Chotu http://www.cringely.com/2012/07/23/are-indian-high-schoolers-manning-your-ibm-help-desk#comment-262683 Chotu Wed, 26 Sep 2012 09:06:12 +0000 http://www.cringely.com/?p=4523#comment-262683 This is a planted story. How else, can Mr Cringley know who to contact. It is also not factual. The writer must know that all processes in IBM are audited. Sounds like some anti-outsourcing lobby at work. GBS employs graduates with 7 years of college education and not high-schoolers. Verify before you write such things. Is this aimed at whipping up passions? It surely is irresponsible and childish. Hope you are not advisor to Obama :)

]]> This is a planted story. How else, can Mr Cringley know who to contact. It is also not factual. The writer must know that all processes in IBM are audited. Sounds like some anti-outsourcing lobby at work.
GBS employs graduates with 7 years of college education and not high-schoolers.
Verify before you write such things. Is this aimed at whipping up passions? It surely is irresponsible and childish. Hope you are not advisor to Obama :)

]]> By: Ronc http://www.cringely.com/2012/07/23/are-indian-high-schoolers-manning-your-ibm-help-desk#comment-255557 Ronc Tue, 14 Aug 2012 22:37:55 +0000 http://www.cringely.com/?p=4523#comment-255557 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcQe9IpfAa8

]]> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcQe9IpfAa8

]]> By: Marcus http://www.cringely.com/2012/07/23/are-indian-high-schoolers-manning-your-ibm-help-desk#comment-255506 Marcus Tue, 14 Aug 2012 20:11:04 +0000 http://www.cringely.com/?p=4523#comment-255506 While I agree that there are a lack of University Degrees, many "seem" to have a base professional certification. Frankly, even here in the US there is more demand for Experienced & Certified people than Degrees, although desired. We also have to keep in mind the Caste System is alive and well in India, and that must be factored in. What I found is a major difference is that overseas there is a high turnover rate as these "Green horn" certified professionals come in, are trained, gain experience and are either promoted or leave for another company altogether. Here in the US I see now that High School Vocational Schools (i.e. BOCES) are now offering Certification Classes to qualified Juniors and Seniors. I was bothered by two things in this new program... First, this now gave a demeaning view of IT as blue collar for what was once a prized white collar profession. Second, these certified High School Grads can now enter the entry level work force to fill the glut of low paying IT jobs. Now my question is whether or not these Certified High School Grads will actually go on to college? I made my son promise not to forego college for this certification before I allowed him to enroll in this program, even if it means he works through college. A degree is still important and shuld not be trivialized by Certifications.
]]> While I agree that there are a lack of University Degrees, many “seem” to have a base professional certification. Frankly, even here in the US there is more demand for Experienced & Certified people than Degrees, although desired. We also have to keep in mind the Caste System is alive and well in India, and that must be factored in.

What I found is a major difference is that overseas there is a high turnover rate as these “Green horn” certified professionals come in, are trained, gain experience and are either promoted or leave for another company altogether.

Here in the US I see now that High School Vocational Schools (i.e. BOCES) are now offering Certification Classes to qualified Juniors and Seniors. I was bothered by two things in this new program… First, this now gave a demeaning view of IT as blue collar for what was once a prized white collar profession. Second, these certified High School Grads can now enter the entry level work force to fill the glut of low paying IT jobs.

Now my question is whether or not these Certified High School Grads will actually go on to college? I made my son promise not to forego college for this certification before I allowed him to enroll in this program, even if it means he works through college. A degree is still important and shuld not be trivialized by Certifications.

]]> By: charting http://www.cringely.com/2012/07/23/are-indian-high-schoolers-manning-your-ibm-help-desk#comment-253568 charting Tue, 07 Aug 2012 17:30:37 +0000 http://www.cringely.com/?p=4523#comment-253568 Late to the comments (I just found this article today), but wanted to add my two cents. "... offshore labor markets can multiply that price advantage through labor arbitrage using cheaper yet just as talented foreign labor to supplant more expensive domestic workers who are in extremely short supply." Just as talented? Perhaps, but most don't have the skills and none of them have the experience. The group of offshore 'engineers' I work with now, with few exceptions, lack troubleshooting skills and some basic UNIX knowledge. Domestic workers are in extremely short supply? When I was released from IBM Global Services ("resource action", March 2010), the reason stated was 'lack of work' -- yet my job did NOT go offshore, nor did it disappear. Apparently, IBM hired another former IBMer (who was on the same RA list as me) as a contractor to take over the job I left, probably at a much lower pay rate.

]]> Late to the comments (I just found this article today), but wanted to add my two cents.
“… offshore labor markets can multiply that price advantage through labor arbitrage using cheaper yet just as talented foreign labor to supplant more expensive domestic workers who are in extremely short supply.”
Just as talented? Perhaps, but most don’t have the skills and none of them have the experience. The group of offshore ‘engineers’ I work with now, with few exceptions, lack troubleshooting skills and some basic UNIX knowledge.
Domestic workers are in extremely short supply? When I was released from IBM Global Services (“resource action”, March 2010), the reason stated was ‘lack of work’ — yet my job did NOT go offshore, nor did it disappear. Apparently, IBM hired another former IBMer (who was on the same RA list as me) as a contractor to take over the job I left, probably at a much lower pay rate.

]]> By: Wise V http://www.cringely.com/2012/07/23/are-indian-high-schoolers-manning-your-ibm-help-desk#comment-252651 Wise V Sat, 04 Aug 2012 13:05:25 +0000 http://www.cringely.com/?p=4523#comment-252651 When IBM India says 50% of their GDC workforce will be university graduates , what they mean is that they will be fresh engineering graduates not experienced ,highly-paid indians ,so please read thru the lines properly, its not as if IBM has decided to favour India and the new super powers of the world , the reality is software is an over-hyped business , americans had been having too much fun(read salary) with too little work , think how america's greatest companies are being run by software written by fresh-grads bcoz software development is not too difficult , mark zuckerberg couldnt have written facebook if software was the art of the elite and the rich , its a world flattener. IBM India is now applying same work-force restructuring principles in India as they have been doing in the US , wats their advantage , its simple, a fresh engineering graduate can be hired for upto 10 times cheaper than a seasoned pro(i am talking abt a 10 yrs experienced programmer in india vs a fresh engineering grad in india ) , so if u hav to build a software with a team of 10 they have 6 fresh grads , and 4 experienced guys , the fresh grads are far more flexible , they learn any new tech that the company mandates , dont complain of ultra -narrow work deadlines and relocate to the place of IBM's choice , unlike an experienced guy who has a million preferences , IBM sells big dreams to these fresh grads , its a super kick start for a fresher from india , win-win for evrybody ... this site is waste of time, move on u dumb americans , start working , ur republican masters have screwed ur country forever its over now. The party of the american dream has come to an end , stop cribbing and start adding real value to ur employer if u want to surviive , othrwise chances are u will be wiped out soon ... and for all the highly paid so called experienced software pros who lost their jobs bcoz of outsourcing , get multiskilled , jus learning skill X and expecting to be paid 100 thousand dollars evry yr for the same work is a joke for the next 100 yrs .... dont u see tht the world around u has changed , hw do u expect IBM to pay u without contributing .... facebook happened in 6 yrs and will be a fad very soon , dont be lazy .... as one f the greatest americans ever said .... Stay Hungry Stay Foolish

]]> When IBM India says 50% of their GDC workforce will be university graduates , what they mean is that they will be fresh engineering graduates not experienced ,highly-paid indians ,so please read thru the lines properly, its not as if IBM has decided to favour India and the new super powers of the world , the reality is software is an over-hyped business , americans had been having too much fun(read salary) with too little work , think how america’s greatest companies are being run by software written by fresh-grads bcoz software development is not too difficult , mark zuckerberg couldnt have written facebook if software was the art of the elite and the rich , its a world flattener.
IBM India is now applying same work-force restructuring principles in India as they have been doing in the US , wats their advantage , its simple,
a fresh engineering graduate can be hired for upto 10 times cheaper than a seasoned pro(i am talking abt a 10 yrs experienced programmer in india vs a fresh engineering grad in india ) , so if u hav to build a software with a team of 10 they have 6 fresh grads , and 4 experienced guys , the fresh grads are far more flexible , they learn any new tech that the company mandates , dont complain of ultra -narrow work deadlines and relocate to the place of IBM’s choice , unlike an experienced guy who has a million preferences , IBM sells big dreams to these fresh grads , its a super kick start for a fresher from india , win-win for evrybody … this site is waste of time, move on u dumb americans , start working , ur republican masters have screwed ur country forever its over now. The party of the american dream has come to an end , stop cribbing and start adding real value to ur employer if u want to surviive , othrwise chances are u will be wiped out soon …
and for all the highly paid so called experienced software pros who lost their jobs bcoz of outsourcing , get multiskilled , jus learning skill X and expecting to be paid 100 thousand dollars evry yr for the same work is a joke for the next 100 yrs …. dont u see tht the world around u has changed , hw do u expect IBM to pay u without contributing …. facebook happened in 6 yrs and will be a fad very soon , dont be lazy …. as one f the greatest americans ever said …. Stay Hungry Stay Foolish

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