This is my sixth column about the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear accident that started last year in Japan following the tsunami. But unlike those previous columns (1,2,3,4,5), this one looks forward to the next Japanese nuclear accident, which will probably take place at the same location. That accident, involving nuclear fuel rods, is virtually inevitable, most likely preventable, and the fact that it won’t be prevented comes down solely to Japanese government and Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO) incompetence and stupidity. Japanese citizens will probably die unnecessarily because the way things are done at the top in Japan is completely screwed up.
Understand that I have some cred in this space having worked three decades ago as an investigator for the Presidential Commission on the Accident at Three Mile Island and later wrote a book about that accident. I also ran for 20 years a technology consulting business in Japan.
Here’s the problem. In the damaged Unit 4 at Fukushima Daiichi there are right now 1,535 fuel rods that have yet to be removed from the doomed reactor. The best case estimate of how long it will take to remove those rods is three years. Next to the Unit 4 reactor and in other places on the same site there are more than 9,000 spent fuel rods stored mainly in pools of water but in some spots exposed to the air and cooled by water jets. The total volume of unstable nuclear fuel on the site exceeds 11,000 rods. Again, the best estimate of how long it will take to remove all this fuel and spent fuel is 10 years but it may well take longer.
Fukushima has always been a seismically active area. Called the Japan Trench Subduction Zone, it has experienced nine seismic events of magnitude 7 or greater since 1973. There was a 5.8 earthquake in 1993; a 7.1 in 2003; a 7.2 earthquake in 2005; and a 6.2 earthquake offshore of the Fukushima facility just last year, all of which caused shutdowns or damage to nuclear plants. Even small earthquakes can damage nuclear plants: a 6.8 quake on Japan’s west coast in 2007 cost TEPCO $5.62 billion.
But last year’s 9.0 earthquake and tsunami made things far worse, further destabilizing the local geology. According to recently revised estimates by the Japanese government, the probability of an earthquake of 7.0 magnitude or greater in the region during the next three years is now 90 percent. The Unit 4 reactor building that was substantially damaged by the tsunami and subsequent explosions will not survive a 7.0+ earthquake.
An earthquake of 7.0 or greater is likely to disrupt cooling water flow and further damage fuel storage pools possibly making them leak. If this happens the fuel rods will be exposed, will get hotter and eventually melt, puddling in the reactor basement and beneath the former storage ponds. This is a nuclear meltdown, which will lead to catastrophic (though non-nuclear) explosions and the release of radioactive gases, especially Cesium 137.
The amount of Cesium 137 in the fuel rods at Fukushima Daiichi is the equivalent of 85 Chernobyls.
To review, there is a 90 percent chance of a large earthquake in the minimum three years required to remove just the most unstable part of the fuel load at Fukushima Daiichi. The probability of a large earthquake in the 10+ years required to completely defuel the plant is virtually 100 percent. If a big earthquake happens before that fuel is gone there will be global environmental catastrophe with many deaths.
Let me explain how something like this can happen. For 20 years I ran with a partner a consulting business in Japan serving some of that country’s largest companies. Here is how our business worked:
1) A large Japanese company would announce a bold technical goal to be reached in a time frame measured in years, say 5-10. This could be building a supercomputer, going to the Moon, whatever.
2) Time passes and in quarterly meetings team leaders are asked how the project is going. They lie, saying all is well, while the truth is that little progress has been made. Though money is spent, sometimes no work is done at all.
3) The project deadline eventually approaches and a junior team member is selected to take the heat, admitting in a meeting that there has been very little progress, taking responsibility and offering to resign. The goal will not be reached, the company will be embarrassed.
4) In a final attempt to avoid corporate embarrassment, the company reaches out to me: surely Bob knows some Silicon Valley garage startup that can build our supercomputer or take us to the Moon. Money is no object.
5) Sure enough, there often is such a startup and the day is saved.
It’s my belief that this is exactly what’s going on right now at Fukushima Daiichi. The very logic of time and probability that scares the bejesus out of me is being completely ignored, replaced with magical thinking. Organizations are committing to fix the current disaster and avoid the next disaster when in fact they are probably incapable of doing either. Lies are being told because Japanese government and industry are more afraid of their vulnerability being exposed than they are concerned about citizens dying. Afraid of being embarrassed, they press forward doing the best that they can, praying that an earthquake doesn’t happen.
This is no way to approach a nuclear catastrophe. What’s even worse is this approach isn’t unique to Japan but is common in the global nuclear industry.
Time is critical. What’s clearly required in Fukushima is new project leadership and new technical skills. Some think the Japanese military should take over the job, but I believe that would be just another mistake. The same foot dragging takes place in the Japanese military that happens in Japanese industry.
Fukushima Daiichi requires a Manhattan Project approach. The sole role of the Japanese government should be to pay for the job. A single project leader or czar should be selected not from the nuclear industry and that leader should probably not be Japanese. Contracts should be let to organizations from any country on equal merit so only the best people who can move the quickest with safety get the work. Then cut the crap and get it done in a third or half the time.
But that’s not how it will happen. In Japan it almost never is.

The obvious solution is to develop as rapidly as possible a new type of power source. I keep hearing about repressed technology that will be released once the criminals at the very top of the financial world are forced to resign. Well, I’m not holding my breath.
“The obvious solution is to develop as rapidly as possible a new type of power source”
That does not solve the problem of how to get the unspent fuel rods out of the #4 pool.
You are right, Frank. I was somewhat sloppy late last night. Should have said, “The obvious solution for the future…”
However, my unstated premise was that inventors and engineers tend to be possibility and action oriented. Whereas bureaucrats, politicians, and executives tend to be more concerned with maintaining their power, position, and pride. Or as I like to say, the former are reality oriented while the latter are illusion oriented.
This being the case, the outlook for the present looks rather hopeless.
Your rush to be the first commenter is a recurring issue. The solution for the future is for you to stop. All of you.
Hey John, what gave you the idea I have been in some big rush to be first?
I’ve been first maybe two or three times since I have been posting here. Are my postings that lacking in merit to be dismissed so rudely? Well, maybe a few…
Can’t imagine how the Japanese got to be so successfull in tech & high tech industries with their way of doing business…
They’re “overburocratized” as hell… Even their high tech startups.
A simple code change during development (which in any US startup would take merely hours) took the poor engineer 3 days(!) just to get the proper management approvals.
They do everything by the book and are lost when something unexpected happens and quick action is needed…
1) they are surprised also. many anime (Summer Wars, Paranoia Agent, most Myazaki…) have nostalgia for the post-war period when several things were different (briefly).(1940′s)
2) I remember when ‘made in Japan’ referred to what ‘made in China’ implies now (1960 early). Then, there was a quality revolution and Japan with literally hungry workers, high savings rates and all the same problems mentioned worked to make cheap high quality imitations of American manufactured goods (1970′s….when we were sure Japan was going to take us over).
3) they got a lot of money they did a lot of investment (1980′s). They had a big bubble…..and everything collapsed and they didn’t do squat to correct it (1990′s to present).
Did I miss something?
And… really, really fabulous article Mr Cringely. I could link to some ex-pat blogs about Japan reinforcing exactly what you are saying about the Japanese way of doing things, but why bother. Unexpected depths ! Please continue writing.
The bubble was caused by the G5 (at that time) strategically devaluing all Western currencies to force Japnese exports to become too costly, with the intention of causing US and other Euro made goods to become more inexpensive in comparison. This move was widely believed to have the power to fix the trade imbalance. But John Q Public LIKED their Camries and were willing to fork over extra dough to have a Kaizen created, efficient car, camera, stereo, etc, causing more money to flood into Japan. The investors did what the US did in the 2000′s after the foolishness of the vapor ware fueled IPO boom of the 1990′s–invest in real estate. This, in turn, caused banks to give sloppy loans with the intention of reaping massive rewards on the next turnover sales. This finally died in 1997 when Yamaichi went down after Thai investments tanked when the Baht could no longer be tied to a Bullish US dollar in the throes of the nascent tech revolution. Long story short–don’t blame Japan’s bubble solely on Japan. Just google the Plaza Accords.
The success of the US in the 50′s, Japan in the 70′s, and China now were all do to hard work, attention to detail, and few “entitlements”. Perhaps their economic and cultural policies at the time contributed to those factors. When policies and cultures change, so will the results.
“The sea was angry that day, my friend. Like an old man in a deli trying to send back soup”.
that’s my line … said to jerry, elaine, and kramer … the day i removed a golf ball from a whale’s blowhole!
Ironically enough, I was just talking with a friend about the New Madrid fault, and the havoc it would wreak over the entire central U.S.
Considering the time bombs scattered throughout the world, this will most definitely be “interesting times to live in.”
but how would the money be returned to politicans pockets if it is spent on actual progress?
i left a comment on this thread at enenews, thought it polite to post the link
nice article!
congressman-days-before-officials-enter-fire-damaged-area-nuclear
peace
“…The amount of Cesium 137 in the fuel rods at Fukushima Daiichi is the equivalent of 85 Chernobyls….”
i think 1 chernobyl would be enough for japan as the chernobyl experiment is only a tenth the way through.. and still no proper western data on this tragedy imo… and dont forget the slightly worse AND longer running experiment on the semipalantisk peoples of khasakstan… eugenics.. dont get me started..
and this
“..Lies are being told because Japanese government and industry are more afraid of their vulnerability being exposed than they are concerned about citizens dying…”
more like they have to legally do whats best for the shareholders.. important driving force in all these disasters imo..
and this
“…Some think the Japanese military should take over the job, but I believe that would be just another mistake. The same foot dragging takes place in the Japanese military that happens in Japanese industry….”
agree.. but use the resources available.. give independent ngo`s the funding and permission to work in japan .. as a priority..
ACRO france and CRIIRAD for example, already with feet on the ground.. but stymied!
but i suppose he had to limit the word count
but maybe an addition or 3?
please do not forget the forgotten children of fukushima!
they need our help and support
banzai!
I’ll attempt to draw a parallel example….. Nissan…. was floundering in the Automobile market. Japanese management could not pull it out of its dive. Board of Directors brought in Carlos Ghosn to revive Nissan. He made very painful decisions that a Japanese CEO would never make and turned NIssan around. Ghosn is now supremely revered in Japan……
But mind you if he had failed then the Japanese would have an outsider to place the blame on as well… This is how I think Howard Stringer at Sony is going to end up….
So I have to say that I think Bob’s plan is probably the only thing that is going to kick-start addressing the issue. In fact I would suggest going one step further and having an outsider go in and manage the Japanese commission that oversees the Nuclear Energy companies/facilities in Japan.
Don’t forget Nissan board did not just bring in Ghosn, but also a 44% ownership stake by Renault (and Nissan on the other end owns 15% of Renault).
And since 15% of Renault is still owned by French government (government share used to be over 50%), this means 6.6% of Nissan is owned by French government.
With Japanese government trying to increase their share in TEPCO, I don’t foresee TEPCO being allowed to have foreign ownership any time soon.
So a Ghosn type CEO minus foreign ownership might work…
Par for the course for the Japanese nuclear industry.
Here in the U.S. we have retro-fitted our boiling water reactors (BWR) to at least try to address some significant flaws in the design.
We recommended Japan do the same, instead they created cartoons to sell “Mr. Nuclear” to their people.
Pre-Fukushima one of the worst recent criticality accidents was in a Japanese reprocessing facility, killing two workers.
Not only bureaucracy but an institutional mindset of carelessness seems to pervade the nuclear industry in Japan.
hi bill
“Not only bureaucracy but an institutional mindset of carelessness seems to pervade the nuclear industry in Japan…”
its the same here in the uk too!
“Here in the U.S. we have retro-fitted our boiling water reactors (BWR) to at least try to address some significant flaws in the design.”
did not the japanese say something similar about russia ie chernobyl?
thank heavens for usa engineering safety… ? maybe?
change “we have changed” to “it has been mandated to change at the next out-service opportunity.” and the engineering to make changes more substantial than changing the font on quarterly reports has not made it much past the first level in NRC..
if it’s standing, any nuke plant you can point at is massively obsolete.
if it’s under consideration, it’s obsolete.
if it’s a gleam in an engineer’s eye, it’s 10 years minimum of oversight from the initial permitting stage.
that is your nuclear engineering review for Friday, May 25th, 2012. same as any other engineering review.
only in this case, it’s not script-kiddies that will make the lights blink in the control room because they stumbled on the IP address. it’s one to six states you can wipe off the map for the forseeable future.
nuclear power is a wonderful idea. pinheads who shut down the reprocessing and isolation system while there are no serious fixes for 1950/1960 engineering boundaries that prove dangerous kinda take the shine off. all those billions and trillions of dollars levied against the cost of fuel for cleanups frittered away in offsites with nothing to show for it.
General Electric designed and built those reactors, friend. If they were fixed in the US, why didn’t they take the same care with their foreign customers? Criminal greed knows no nationality.
It could be that GE *tried* to get those fixes applied in foreign countries, but Japan and/or TEPCO refused to allow them to be made. Don’t assume that the company is at fault. You don’t know who might have been involved here, or what decisions were made by whom. None of us know.
GreatScott, John knows. He knows it was not only GE’s greed that prevented them from selling and installing updated plant designs to the Japanese, it was criminal greed that prevented them from selling and installing updated plant designs to the Japanese.
How can greed be the motive to not do the same thing thing in Japan that they are doing in the US? If updates need to be done, the customer has to cooperate.
What is really needed is some lateral thinking, such taking a leaf out of Captain Cook’s book when he was shipwrecked on Endeavour Reef and do a bit of fothering in reverse by dropping or drag in a series of giant weighted liners, not easy but doable in a shorter time frame.
Then when a quake hits and the outer skin fails the water pressure will pin the liner to what’s left of the pool and slow any leaks to a point where high volume pumps can pump in water quick enough to stop a melt down…
But Bob’s right that will never happen!
in a spent fuel pool, the fuel assemblies are separated by plastic spacers that, curiously enough, are irreplaceable without taking out all the spent fuel.
the pools bubble. bubble. bubble as irradiation breaks down the plastic and gases rise to the top of the pool.
and for 50 years, the solution for too much spent fuel has been to reduce the distance of assemblies from each other, increasing the load on the plastic molecules.
so far, so good.
lot of that going on.
“there will be global environmental catastrophe with many deaths”
I sure am interested to hear more about this part of the story.
subscribe to the local paper. it will be there.
After Chernobyl the Russians to their credit did the right thing. They got International help and took all those graphite reactors out of service.
The Chinese to their credit resisted the NIH syndrome. When they decided to build lots of new power plants, they purchased the best International design they could find.
The Japanese now have an opportunity to do something great. They can turn a bad situation into something good and positive to the world. Or they can continue to make poor decisions….
I seem to recall the Soviets sending in people to Chernybol and them all dieing from radiation.
Yes, the Russians sent a lot of unfortunate workers to their deaths. But to their immense credit, they acted quickly and decisively, possibly sparing thousands or maybe hundreds of thousands of lives in the process.
There is a good Russian documentary on the web, a filmmaker was on site and captured some interesting and dramatic footage of the operation. Worth searching for, it’s onyoutube or google video, cant remember which…
Cringley,
I believe your diagnosis, but I don’t see a cure. How can the situation be stabilized and mitigated so the site can withstand the next 7.0 earthquake that IS likely to occur before the site is fully contained/stabilized.
It seems the diagnosis is easy, how do you cure the patient before the next catastrophic heart attack, ie earthquake?
Regards,
Joe Dokes
We’ve had the technology to deal with this for a quarter century. All those “spent” fuel rods are input fuel for fast breeder reactors of the Integral Fast Reactor type. Google that with ‘frontline’ for a good interview about the reactor that was running successfully for a while before Clinton/Gore/Kerry lead the effort to shut it down. A recent TED talk had a few MIT kids talking about a similar reactor. The DoE won’t allow commercial research to happen on this kind of technology in the US. Just from the standpoint that this kind of technology is meltdown-proof and converts 300,000 year waste into 300-year waste, I think we have a moral imperitive to employ it. That doing so would produce enough power to run most of the world for the next century is just a bonus.
Oh, to the point of the article: if this technology had been commercialized over the past decade, those fuel rods wouldn’t have even been there. But, oh, no, we need “Green” congressmen to save us from teh nukes.
last operational FBR we had in commercial service, the Fermi 1 unit outside Detroit, was a freaking nightmare of sodium escapes and explosions and a meltdown due to floating junk in the cooling stream forced its disassembly (per a schedule, thank goodness.)
I bet they still have hundreds of steel drums sitting in the weather over there loaded with radio-sodium.
who needs Wacko bin Loonies when we have stuff like this sitting around, or concrete outhouses with 1-1/2 fuel loads in the back of older reactors, one old pickup truck full of crystallized dynamite and a drunk at the wheel away from catastrophe? it’s a Cyclone fence and a CCTV camera for physical security at these sites.
So when they remove the rods, at whatever pace, where are they taking them to?
don’t think we have a US site working any more. at least, not commercial. Japan has two. France has several. Russia has some. and I’m sure Iran would like to bid on the work
If money is no object, then my robotic fuel rod removal startup is just what Japan needs. Gee, where can I find an American technology consultant with cred in Japan?
I see what you did there.
Doesn’t sound any different than any other industry. Sad part is, we’re not talking about a business failing, we’re talking about global catastrophe. And I think that means that other countries should definitely be involved, as noted at the end of the article. Get the best and brightest in there and get it done.
I don’t think anyone is going to “blame,” make fun of or point the finger at the Japanese for not knowing how to completely and masterfully deal with a 9+ earthquake, massive tsunami and damaged nuclear plant all at the same time. If they waste time and something worse happens, then I think they are completely to blame.
Everyone needs a helping hand now and again. And, again, since this can turn global, everyone should be helping. Get some global agency or something in there and “force” the Japanese to get help. This really can’t for someone’s pride or ego.
Bob – I take issue with your statement : “The sole role of the Japanese government should be to pay for the job”
Here we have the problem with industry – they reap all the profits when things go well, but when the brown stuff hits the fan, lets expect the Government (that is, you and I) to pickup the tab. Privatize the profits, socialize the losses.
TEPCO is responsible. The government should nationalize the utility, wipe out shareholder equity, then eventually take it public again, using the float to pay the bill. My point wasn’t a government bailout, quite the opposite. It was the elimination of Japanese politics from the response.
desune.
Wow, great article, yes you are going to be a correct profit of doom because you are a numbers person, and your numbers are really irrefutable.
Even more shocking to me, and to you if you actually think the Japanese Govt could do anything (really ?!?….really ?!?!?) is if you hear a Japanese politician speak…they use the word ‘desune’ (anime fans will recognize this as the ‘is’ verb used exclusively by small, overly polite girls..generally fairies). The point is, that diametrically opposed to current US politiicians that trade on being asshole alpha males, Japanese politicians trade on humility.
http://www.peterpayne.net/2012/05/japanese-vs-american-elections.html
(I do say ‘doomed’ down lower in the blog). doomed doomed doomed.
Desu ne is in 2 words and translates as “isn’t it”…
I wouldn’t expect “isn’t it” would be used exclusively by “overly polite” anything. So are you in agreement or not with the statement you are commenting on?
If Japanese anime is your only source you should leave out commenting on Japanese politics.
As has been pointed out by an earlier post ‘Desu ne’ is two words. ‘Desu’ alone is the ‘be’ verb – is/am/are- the ‘ne’ turns it into a rhetorical question – ‘isn’t it’. It does make a statement sound less staccato or imperious and so softer by inviting listeners to agree but it is not something restricted to cutie pie anime girls at all.
Even (or especially) alpha males want to be agreed with and Japanese politicians do plenty of alpha male posturing, they do little else. As with all politicians any humility has to be spanked out of them and is usually only on show when they have been caught with their hands in the cookie jar. The Tepco boss showed more humility by having a wee cry but he doesn’t deserve much credit for that, it was just his Tony Heyward moment.
As for this article itself we all know what a mess Tepco and the Govt made of everything and the current situation is certainly not something to be complacent about but when something sounds too terrible to be true then generally it is not. The certainty of the earthquake predictions and phrases in italics like ’85 Chernobyls’ (85 times the amount of fuel rods at Chernobyl would be a measurable statement of fact, ’85 Chernobyls’ is just hysteria) set hyperbole alarms off for me but Arclight puts it best.
I lost track of the argument fallacies about halfway through this. I think you could potentially have a good point here, but you hyped it so much my fanboi filters kicked in.
A few questions:
There are 1500 fuel rods in the damaged reactor. IANA nuclear expert, but my understanding was that those rods were previously dangerous because the reactor wasn’t in “cold shutdown”. Now it is. So as long as the rods remain submerged and the uranium isn’t allowed to oxidize, what’s the danger? The reactor doesn’t require the aggressive active cooling it needed during the accident, so it should be a much simpler matter to keep it filled (even if it starts leaking).
There are 11K rods on site with enough Cs-137 for 85 Chernobyls. But again, what makes an earthquake such a certain disaster? As long as they aren’t exposed to air, no problem.
You’re the one with the cred, maybe you could explain why it takes so long to remove rods? Or where they would be removed *to*? I honestly don’t know.
Yes, the earthquake/tsunami caused the original disaster by disrupting power and breaking water lines. You’re not willing to give the TEPCO engineers any credit for being smart, but can’t we at least assume they’ve repaired the generators and backup pumps?
Future earthquakes are not guaranteed (though I agree they are likely, eventually). Future earthquakes are not guaranteed to produce tsunamis. Future tsunamis are not guaranteed to hit Fukushima-Daiichi. Future tsunamis hitting Fukushima-Daiichi are not guaranteed to disrupt power or cooling. Future disruptions of power or cooling are not guaranteed to produce meltdowns or releases. Future meltdowns or releases are not guaranteed to be large or dangerous.
I agree the disaster was bad, very bad, and I agree TEPCO (and the Japanese government) should spare no expense to prevent anything like it from ever happening again, NOW. But I don’t agree that making the situation sound worse than it is will help anyone at all.
I’ve read (and enjoyed) your many articles criticizing business that make big moves without doing their homework or planning properly, especially when you get to say “I told you so”. Do you really think the Japanese should immediately start a knee-jerk cleanup effort, just so they can say they got it done quickly?
I’d prefer they do it right, no matter how long it takes.
Well, I’m not Bob, but here are a few knee-jerk reactions:
> As long as the rods remain submerged and the uranium isn’t allowed to oxidize, what’s the danger?
They’re safely submerged… In a structurally unsafe and radioactive building. Cringely is casting doubts on the “safely submerged” part being maintained in the next major earthquake.
> But again, what makes an earthquake such a certain disaster?
The buildings were already damaged in the last earthquake, the tsunami made it worse, and they’re not being fixed for the next earthquake.
> why it takes so long to remove rods?
Did you even read the article?
> Or where they would be removed *to*?
At least, some place that won’t fall apart at the next earthquake.
> not guaranteed
Life has no guarantees, but some things are very likely. As anybody who has studied geology in grade school knows, Japan is in the Ring of Fire. Unless a Biblical end of the world happens and a new Jerusalem floats out of the sky, Japan is going to get more major earthquakes.
Thanks, R, I would have said pretty much the same. Some people feel better if they can criticize the messenger…
isn;’t IANA the international nuclear industry watchdog?
the Law of Unintended Consequences… .
I’m amazed nobody has called this out yet, but Bob needs to read up on the Richter scale.
Bob sez: “The Unit 4 reactor building that was substantially damaged by the tsunami and subsequent explosions will not survive a 7.0+ earthquake.”
Why would you say such a thing? A 9.0 earthquake is fully 100x larger/stronger than a 7.0 earthquake. Why would you assume that a relatively small earthquake would destroy buildings that were mostly undamaged by an earthquake of 100 times greater magnitude? This is just silly hyperbole, and really detracts from the rest of the much more valid points you were trying to make about Japanese culture & government.
perhaps because the building’s beat to shytte by the earthquake, tsunami, hydrogen explosions from nuclear element contact with water, and partly because all the hodge-podge cooling hacks they’ve duct taped to the side of the box look like a Rube Goldberg LSD trip.
Agree. No proof offered that a 7 Earthquake would produce said damage. After all, there were aftershocks greater than 7.0.
The reactor building was damaged first by the earthquake then by the tsunami then by a number of hydrogen explosions, then by demolition required to gain some access, then by continued exposure to radiation. Those events make the current structural integrity of the reactor building very different than it was when that first 9.0 hit. But that’s not what I relied on in making that statement. I relied on comments made directly to me by engineers working at the site TODAY. Nobody working on-site believes the reactor building can be relied upon to survive a 7.0+ quake. It might survive, sure, but the people whose lives are most directly at stake feel that those lives are in jeopardy. Or at least that’s what they tell me.
The article from Asahi quoted in your blog does not seem to support the following statement:
“According to recently revised estimates by the Japanese government, the probability of an earthquake of 7.0 magnitude or greater in the region during the next three years is now 90 percent.”
The article talks about possibilities during the following 30 years, not 3 years.
And about this:
“But that’s not what I relied on in making that statement. I relied on comments made directly to me by engineers working at the site TODAY. Nobody working on-site believes the reactor building can be relied upon to survive a 7.0+ quake.”
Sounds a bit strange, considering the last reports made by engineers working at the site TODAY:
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/nu/fukushima-np/images/handouts_120525_05-e.pdf
> 3) The project deadline eventually approaches and a junior team member
> is selected to take the heat, admitting in a meeting that there has been
> very little progress, taking responsibility and offering to resign. The goal
> will not be reached, the company will be embarrassed.
Question: is this guy drinking the cool-aid, heavily compensated behind the scenes or is he just his companies version of Asok the intern?
uh, you’ve never worked for a large company, right?
It sounds to me like he runs one.
Thanks for making me look up “Asok the intern”. Very appropriate analogy.
I have to disagree. The recovery was fast because Japanese are familiar with earthquakes. I have to say from judging from how America handled New Orleans,
I have to say NO WAY….
I have to disagree. Japanese should run Japan.The recovery was fast because Japanese are familiar with earthquakes. Despite all criticisms, I think Japan handled the situation pretty well. People are going to find faults and point fingers on someone not matter what in these situations. I have to say from judging from how America handled New Orleans,I have to say NO WAY.
Let me give you just one specific example of how you are wrong here. One problem identified almost immediately at Fukushima Daiichi was (and still is) the processing of radioactive cooling water in the reactor basement. When the cooling pumps failed and they eventually went to pumping sea water into the building it had nowhere to come back out without contaminating the local area and the sea. That’s how they got those crazy radioactivity readings out at sea inside the plume of return seawater.
I advise an environmental remediation company in Athens Georgia called Planteco Environmental started by a professor at the University of Georgia. Planteco’s main business is explosives remediation but they had a patented technology on the shelf for precipitating radionuclides from contaminated water. The technology was not only patented, it was approved by the US EPA and was CHEAP. I convinced Planteco to offer the technology for use at Fukushima Daiichi AT COST.
Here’s how the process works. It uses what are called Microbial Mats that have to be grown in a process that takes about two weeks, then the mats are dried and chopped into a powder that would be transported by air to Fukushima. At the plant the chopped microbial mats would be dumped by helicopter into the reactor building and air hoses would be dropped as well to mix the water and the mats together in the basement containment. Two weeks of growing, a day of transport by air, an hour of dumping and two hours of mixing followed by 4-6 hours of precipitation. The radionuclides in the water would then precipitate to the bottom leaving water to be pumped off the top minus 99 percent of its initial radionuclide load. The basement was running out of storage capacity and this was a way to increase that effective capacity by almost 99X in less than a month.
I contacted TEPCO. I contacted my friends in the nuclear industry from TMI days. I contacted the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. I contacted the U.S. Department of State. I contacted the Japanese Embassy. Eventually a TEPCO contractor asked to come see the Planteco technolog,y then — and I am not making this up — MISSED HIS PLANE and cancelled the whole trip.
Our solution was simple quick and, at $300K total, very cheap.
Here’s what TEPCO did instead. They hired a French company to install a $200 million water filtration system. It took months to install, the basement overfilled in this time, so radioactive water was released into the sea leading to those high radioactivity readings. When the filtration system was complete they turned it on and it failed catastrophically within hours. There was no backup plan.
The significant difference between these two solutions was not that one would have worked and the other didn’t, the difference was that one had a local Japanese representative and an extremely high profit margin attached.
We didn’t get the job not because we couldn’t do it but because there wouldn’t have been a Japanese vendor making at least an eight-figure profit from the deal.
Silly me. I thought this was about saving lives.
now now… you do know better than this.
1) doing things the Japanese way trumps everything else (heh, I could cite your articles to you….)
2) You really have to be within the system and not a gaijin the money is not the most critical feature. That’s part of what you call the bureaucratic mentality, there has to be a personal relationship for anything to happen. (yes, the plane was missed on purpose). The way you do things, is you establish a personal relationship with someone there, you get introductions, you have personal meetings….
yeah….they’re doomed…..
there are a million FAILs in the Naked City.
this was one of them.
(c) NBCUniversal early 60s.
A few weeks ago, on ?NPR?, they talked about the radiation levels in this reactor. The gist of it was, the radiation levels are soo high that:
- it would kill humans in a short period of time. Something like < 1 hour.
- equipment, built with modern technology – ?electronics? would not function – they just can't handle the radiation.
My guess is that a Rube Goldberg contraption like contraption could do it. Pull a lever and the scoop will pull up. Mirrors and optical fibers to see what you are doing.
So if nothing happens, this article will be forgotten. If something happens, bob will look like a genius.
A 90% chance of a 7 earthquake seems very high. What are the odds at other points on the globe? How about in Cali?
Bill Gates is working on getting rid of spent fuel rods, and powering a city for years by doing it. http://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates.html
@Ken ..Privatize the profits, socialize the losses… is universal…
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14651.htm
…
When Hurricane Katrina ripped through the southern United States in August 2005, the authorities were overwhelmed and the governor of Louisiana, Kathleen Babineaux Blanco, appealed to the international community for emergency medical aid. The Cuban government immediately offered assistance to New Orleans and to the states of Mississippi and Alabama, also affected by the storm, and promised that within 48 hours 1,600 doctors, trained to deal with such catastrophes, would arrive with all the necessary equipment plus 36 tonnes of medical supplies. This offer, and another made directly to President George Bush, went unanswered. In the catastrophe at least 1,800 people, most of them poor, died for lack of aid and treatment.
In October 2005, the Kashmir region of Pakistan experienced one of the most violent earthquakes in its history, with terrible consequences in the poorest and most isolated areas to the north. On 15 October an advance party of 200 emergency doctors arrived from Cuba with several tonnes of equipment. A few days later, Havana sent the necessary materials to erect and equip 30 field hospitals in mountain areas, most of which had never been previously visited by a doctor. Local people learned of Cuba’s existence for the first time.
To avoid causing offence in this predominantly Muslim country, the women on the Cuban team, who represented 44% of some 3,000 medical staff sent to Pakistan in the next six months, dressed appropriately and wore headscarves. Good will was quickly established; many Pakistanis even allowed their wives and daughters to be treated by male doctors.
By the end of April 2006, shortly before their departure, the Cubans had treated 1.5 million patients, mostly women, and performed 13,000 surgical operations. Only a few severely injured patients had to be flown to Havana. Pakistan’s President Pervez Musharraf, an important ally of the US and friend of Bush, officially thanked the Cuban authorities and acknowledged that this small nation in the Caribbean had sent more disaster aid than any other country.
….
So when is Cuba going to let ordinary Cubans partake of this health care, instead of sending it around the world to build up propaganda goodwill for their regime?
I’m sorry Bob, but you are hysterically off-base here.
For the tl;dr crowd, I point you at the debunking of this story by Adam Curry and Rod Adams.
First off, you’re repeating the hysterical claims of Bob Alvarez & Mitsuhei Murata without crediting them. Like you, neither of them have any technical expertise in radiological analysis, health physics, severe accident phenonmenology, aerosol generation and transport, structural mechanics or any one of topics which are actually relevant to assessing the risk of the unit 4 spent fuel pools. You don’t need a Ph.D. in the subject, but it would be nice if you actually had any technical cred in this area. But on to the science,..
You take on faith that the spent fuel pools are fragile; they aren’t. They already withstood the initial earthquake which is about 100 times worse than what you’re proposing. But even if the pools lost integrity and drained, the fuel wouldn’t melt; it simply can’t get hot enough. Spent fuel is typically ready for dry cask storage after 3-5 years; we’re well over a year after the accident and much of the fuel is older than that. With every passing day the fuel produces less heat.
The biggest effect of losing pool water is to reduce shielding around the pool, halting any fuel removal & cleanup operations. At worst, you may see some fuel failures (pinhole leaks) releasing a small amount of radioiodine. Not good, but far, far, far less than what’s already been released.
But to your main point about the cesium: it isn’t going anywhere.
The raw amount of cesium is a scary number but it’s a canard. In order for the cesium to hurt anyone offsite, it needs to actually get offsite. This is where aerosol generation and transport come in. Cesium is an alkali metal with a boiling point of 1250F. The only way cesium is going to get offsite rapidly enough and in a form which can hurt people is for it to be airborne, as in an aerosol. There are two ways to make cesium into an aerosol; grind it up very finely and puff it into the air or heat it up to boiling where the vapor will condense on dust particles and waft away. The problem is, there’s no credible mechanism for either of those happening. Neither you nor Murata, Alvarez, nor anyone else repeating this claim have ever suggested a realistic way that cesium will get out of the ceramic oxide it’s currently trapped in and become an aerosol that can be transported offsite.
The cesium released during the main accident came from the molten core debris from units 1-3, not from the spent fuel pools. It was able to get offsite because it was boiled off into aerosol form and was blown out through breaches in containment (likely airlock door seals or cable/piping penetrations.)
By analogy, your car likely has an 11 gallon gas tank. Properly aerosolized and ignited, a fraction of the gas in it could incinerate you in an instant. This doesn’t happen for precisely the same reason. Diesel fuel is actually a better example here since it’s not nearly as volatile as petrol. Now fill the gas tank with sand (note: don’t actually do this.) You’ve just made it that much harder for the fuel to disperse into the air into a dangerous configuration. The sand takes the place of the ceramic fuel pellet containing the cesium.
I really wish you would have credited Murata and Alvarez in your post because then it would have been clear you were simply citing incompetent fearmongers rather than appearing to be one yourself. I don’t mean this to be nasty; it takes seconds to repeat a BS claim like theirs and hours to debunk and the debunking will never get the traction of the original scare story. If a story is too good or too bad to be true, it probably is. At best, it requires some vetting and a healthy dose of skepticism.
Disclosure: My day job is in nuclear risk assessment, principly fire risk and defense waste issues. In a previous job, I was responsible for offsite dose calculations for a large power reactor, including fuel handling accidents in spent fuel pools, as well as severe accident analysis (core melting, containment failing, cats-and-dogs-living-together don’t-cross-the-streams sorts of scenarios.)
Yet I don’t feel better at all. There are complex issues here, the worst of which are probably managerial.
You are correct that my nuclear days are long past, but they included developing on an old NASA IBM/360 accident simulations still used in the industry today. Some of your work is based on some of my work.
Just as we saw with General Public Utilities in Pennsylvania, entrenched management goes through a process of cognitive dissonance in which they become convinced that only the people who screwed it up in the first place can possibly fix it. Further, they come to believe that any delays are justified for exactly this reason (anyone else would take even longer). But that’s not true.
In my very first column on this subject, the day after the tsunami, I explained that the reactors were lost forever. It appears I was the first to write that — weeks before TEPCO came to the same conclusion.
My father was a pilot (I am too) and had a serious accident that ended his career and almost killed him following an engine failure. His accident was so bad not because of the engine failure but because of his response to it. Rather than belly-in the aircraft in a farmer’s field he pumped down the landing gear, increasing drag, decreasing glide, and making it inevitable that he wouldn’t reach the field at all, landing instead in the roof of a barn. That’s TEPCO in the early days of this accident, trying to save the plant when they could have been saving Japan. Now it’s too late and I think it’s a mistake to trust those people any further.
I like your site and writing, Bob, but I think you’re dodging arclight’s post here. He (or she) didn’t argue against your issues with Japanese management and mentality, but rather suggested that your description of the impending danger was partly based on incorrect information.
Considering what kind of blowhards and morons often pollute this forum, you might be more gracious and conciliatory when a credible person offers good, relevant information in a polite and readable format.
You can’t blame Bob for defending himself after being called hysterical and without cred. The alternative opinion could have been presented without the name calling. But I really do appreciate Arclight’s post and links. They provide some balance to help us appreciate the complexity of the issue.
No, I rather support Mr. Cringely on this one
http://www.nerdpocalypse.net/Doomed%20Japan.html
Each purple is a link to an AGGREGATOR site of primary documents of support.
to whit:
the reactor has a LOT of new problems (hydrogen build up, unstable fuel rods, many other features).
Earthquakes happen.
Japan is unable to do squat.
(personally, the only hope I see is for a helpful large firebreathing monster to rise up out of the sea due to the effects of the nuclear waste dumping into the ocean)
You’ve all seen it by now I’m sure, but this calamtiy-in-waiting has been picked up by the NYTimes:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/27/world/asia/concerns-grow-about-spent-fuel-rods-at-damaged-nuclear-plant-in-japan.html?smid=pl-share
Why will it take so long to remove the fuel load?
[...] http://www.cringely.com/2012/05/24/the-n… Be Sociable, Share! Tweet May 27th, 2012 | [...]
Funny thing is… because this development is a clear and present threat to the U.S., why is the U.S. not spearheading a force to deal with this calamity? Does the U.S. have a ‘Pearl Harbor blind spot’ or something with regard to eastern problems that end in big trouble for the U.S? Just a piece of the puzzle that seems missing….
Funny thing is… because this development is a clear and present threat to the U.S., why is the U.S. not spearheading a force to deal with this calamity? Does the U.S. have a ‘Pearl Harbor blind spot’ or something with regard to eastern problems that end in big trouble for the U.S when it’s too late? Just a piece of the puzzle that seems missing….
I hate to say it but isn’t it “Die Itchy Nuclear” and the “Bozo Peninsula”?
I really like the Japanese people but I’m quite worried for them about their situation. Unforunately saving face might result with no face.
I have followed some scary stories for the 1990′s about dumping radioactive water from “leaks” into buckets and dumping it outside.
All kidding aside this is beyond serious!
Robert,
If you truly believe your own analysis and subsequent warning about global disaster, what are you doing to protect yourself and your family from it? Are you moving further away? Buying gas masks? Getting plastic sheeting for the house? Stockpiling potassium iodide?
Like the rest of us, he’s not planning to move to Japan.
He is billing it as a “global environmental catastrophe”. That implies that not being in Japan isn’t good enough.
Hi,
Good article too late unfortunately and not one that anyone with any influence wants to hear.
It is so sad that the people of earth are likely to be mutated beyond recognition due to human incompetence. Still, it is good that people will eventually realise that Fukushima is the most dangerous nuclear incident we have faced.
“An earthquake of 7.0 or greater is likely to disrupt cooling water flow and further damage fuel storage pools possibly making them leak. If this happens the fuel rods will be exposed, will get hotter and eventually melt, puddling in the reactor basement and beneath the former storage ponds. This is a nuclear meltdown, which will lead to catastrophic (though non-nuclear) explosions and the release of radioactive gases, especially Cesium 137.”
I want to ask you why you think this has not already occurred in the main reactors 1-4 prior to today ?
There are some who consider that each country which is not allowed to have nuclear weapons, develops them in secret in the same complex as their nuclear power stations.
I and others reckon this is what was going on underneath Fukushima and in the early days, some evidence for this was seen with the USA lending large barges for the Japanese to remove items by sea. I am not talking about the large barges which they used to bring water to the site for cooling the reactors either.
The Eathquake caused a nuclear reacion to happen in the underground complex beneath the Nuclear power plant and the resulting nuclear dirty bomb explosion was shown on various movies captured at the time.
The water which was used for cooling was not a problem for many weeks due to it filling up the underground complex and only when this was full to overflowing, did the water disposal become a problem.
Many various pieces of information – not least of which is the Japanaese refusal to have PROPER outside help in this disaster – lead us to this conclusion.
There is evidence too that the cores have long since left the buildings 1-4 and that they are at this moment sitting way beneath the reactors burning and tunnelling their way into the ground – waking up and “breathing” every so often to emit high doses of radioactivity into the atmosphere. This is where the steam and aerosolized cesium is coming from.
Thank you for caring about the Japanese people and the people of the world.
Paul
[...] Cringely has an ominous prediction – that the there is nearly certain to be another and worse Japanese nuclear meltdown in the next several years. This got my attention. [...]
Thank you Bob for this article.
It sounds like a typical opinion from an armed-chair strategist.
Who would be those foreign experts and international team?
We need actual names at least, don’t we?
And are they really saying they want to be involved?
Are they really saying they are truly confident that they got a solid workable plan and can actually solve the problem in months or a couple of years?
New York Times
Risk From Spent Nuclear Reactor Fuel Is Greater in U.S. Than in Japan,
Study Says
By MATTHEW L. WALD
Published: May 24, 2011
The threat of a catastrophic release of radioactive materials from a spent fuel pool
at Japan’s Fukushima Daiichi plant is dwarfed by the risk posed by such pools
in the United States, which are typically filled with far more radioactive
material, according to a study released on Tuesday by a nonprofit institute.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/business/energy-environment/25nuke.html?_r=2
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Like I said earlier — bring back Mcarthur and USA occupation!!
TEPCO ran at a loss for several years before the quake. TEPCO was hoarding the spent fuel rods and not reprocessing them when they became depleted.
Fukushima Daiichi was at end of life.
This is how Japan is run!
What power company runs at a loss?
There are a million things Japan could do regarding this.They wont do anything, however. Action is not looked upon favourably in Japan, Face is the only thing that counts.
The success of any project is not judged by the results, its judged by how much face was gained by those involved.
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“The Unit 4 reactor building that was substantially damaged by the tsunami and subsequent explosions will not survive a 7.0+ earthquake.”
Pretty strong assertion to make in the absence of any information regarding its structural integrity. Also curious in that the reactor building has in fact survived 3 magnitude 7 earthquakes since it was damaged.
(all 2011)
April 7th: 7.1
April 11th: 7.1
July 10th: 7.0
not to mention five or six +6.6 earthquakes or indeed the 7.9 aftershock on March 11th 2011 which hot after the tsunami damage but before the explosions.
All of the above happened before the spent fuel pool was reinforced.
Asserting with any degree of certainty it will not survive a 7+ earthquake is just as silly as making the same statement that it will survive.
Oh Robert X (what does X mean) you missed the most important bit(if not in your earlier blogs)!
The Japanese spice up their fuel rods with a free power booster –Plutonium!!
If they spike them with 1% that’s 100 rods of pure Plutonium at 200 kilograms that’s 20 tonnes of pure Plutonium. That’s 500,000 years before the site is safe, at least. To put that in perspective 500,000 years ago we were still living in trees, and not thinking about walking up right and chewing gum at the same time!
OR 1,000 Atomic Bombs just waiting to explode at Fukushima. AND 50,000 Atomic Bombs just waiting to explode in Japan!! What is USA’s Nuclear Bomb stock?
SO YOU CAN KISS JAPAN good bye, unless they find 10,000 Kamikazes willing to die (like in Chernobyl) to save the rest of Japan. That’s if the Japanese politicians and bureaucrats can understand the problem.
I believe they are stupid. So stupid that they will allow Japan to immolate than admit their ignorance — to save face. THAT’S WHY I KEEP SAYING “USA RE-OCCUPATION of Japan”.
Lets not forget the couple of million tonnes of tsunami waste to get rid off.
If they sarcophagus their nuclear power stations – that’s $200 B.
They’re f*#ked!
With a $2 Trillion* problem in EU, a $2 Trillion* problem in USA, and a $2 Trillion problem in Japan we’re all f*#ked.
I can foresee Islam becoming the only winner from the current problems.
And no more progress that 20th century gave the world for a millennium if at all.
*These Trillions are speculative loses. They are other people’s money gambles — all betting on black but getting red! And unlike WWII that had debts that made things, nothing is made but loses and obligations to repay them. It is a phantom economy — Los Vagus sucks out profits from the rest of USA and puts it into cheap glitz, or shit and piss. And this transfer of wealth does nothing but make USA GDP look good.
Jobs said it would take years to get 30,000 engineers in USA — a week and working in a Apple factory in China. USA has dumb downed its workforce and Bush43 was happy that 40% + of GDP came from Wall St ‘fantasy’ crap in the early 2000′s.
Hi Bob
I just saw a program on Australian TV
Some uncover Japanese reporters have revealed that the cooling pond at the damaged number 4 plant is 100m up in the air the damaged supports are jury rigged, there is a bulge in one of the walls, the roof is gone along with the overhead crane to move the spent rods. There is at least 100 times the cesium 32 in that pond that was released by chernobyl
Tepco says all is fine, they are not worried, the pool can withstand typhoons and earthquakes and some time in 2013 they will install a crane and remove the rods from the pool!!!!!!!!
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