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	<title>Comments on: Wall Street and Main Street Don’t Cross</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.cringely.com/2009/04/wall-street-and-main-street-don%e2%80%99t-cross/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.cringely.com/2009/04/wall-street-and-main-street-don%e2%80%99t-cross/</link>
	<description>Cringely on technology</description>
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		<title>By: what is an Upside Down Mortgages</title>
		<link>http://www.cringely.com/2009/04/wall-street-and-main-street-don%e2%80%99t-cross/comment-page-1/#comment-5505</link>
		<dc:creator>what is an Upside Down Mortgages</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 16:11:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cringely.com/?p=399#comment-5505</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;what is an Upside Down Mortgages...&lt;/strong&gt;

...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>what is an Upside Down Mortgages&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Freemon Sandlewould</title>
		<link>http://www.cringely.com/2009/04/wall-street-and-main-street-don%e2%80%99t-cross/comment-page-1/#comment-3000</link>
		<dc:creator>Freemon Sandlewould</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 12:57:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cringely.com/?p=399#comment-3000</guid>
		<description>This petty Robert Mugabe African style dictatorship of Obama&#039;s is not going to help anyone!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This petty Robert Mugabe African style dictatorship of Obama&#8217;s is not going to help anyone!</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.cringely.com/2009/04/wall-street-and-main-street-don%e2%80%99t-cross/comment-page-1/#comment-2955</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cringely.com/?p=399#comment-2955</guid>
		<description>You just proved that you care, moron!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You just proved that you care, moron!</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.cringely.com/2009/04/wall-street-and-main-street-don%e2%80%99t-cross/comment-page-1/#comment-2954</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cringely.com/?p=399#comment-2954</guid>
		<description>&quot;Wall Street and Main Street Don’t Cross

forsale1-300x217

When Barack Obama was running for President one of his favorite sound bites was that any financial bailout should not just involve Wall Street, but Main Street, too – that the government’s responsibility was to help both bankers and homeowners. But now that the election is won and Obama is in office, the two streets are still being treated very differently, with Main Street getting a lot less help from Washington.

This is a HOUSING crisis, not a BANKING crisis, yet $700+ billion has gone to help bankers and only $75 billion to “help” homeowners. The banker’s money has mainly been spent and the homeowner money has hardly been touched. If this is a HOUSING crisis, why aren’t more resources being devoted to housing?

It comes down to an issue of morality, believe it or not, with homeowners expected to be moral and bankers not. Everybody blew it, but the homeowners are being disproportionately punished for their actions.

There is no morality issue in the bank bailout. Banks are having their capital boosted based not on whether they are well run or in some way “deserving,” but purely on the basis of whether they are viewed as being in three groups: 1) doomed; 2) capable of being saved through injecting government funds, or; 3) too big to be allowed to fail no matter how poorly run. This means the least-deserving banks tend to get the most help.

But the Obama Administration’s attempt to help mortgage holders is different. If you hope for government help in restructuring your mortgage you’d better not be behind in your payments. If you missed a mortgage payment months into this crisis, you are out of luck. If your mortgage isn’t guaranteed by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, you are out of luck. If your mortgage is jumbo you are out of luck. And if you owe more than 105 percent of the value of your home you are out of luck.&quot;

Wrong, as usual, Bob.  These people ARE THE LUCKY ONES.  Anybody &quot;helped&quot; to stay in an under water mortgage is being turned into a debt slave for the rest of their lives.  Think about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Wall Street and Main Street Don’t Cross</p>
<p>forsale1-300&#215;217</p>
<p>When Barack Obama was running for President one of his favorite sound bites was that any financial bailout should not just involve Wall Street, but Main Street, too – that the government’s responsibility was to help both bankers and homeowners. But now that the election is won and Obama is in office, the two streets are still being treated very differently, with Main Street getting a lot less help from Washington.</p>
<p>This is a HOUSING crisis, not a BANKING crisis, yet $700+ billion has gone to help bankers and only $75 billion to “help” homeowners. The banker’s money has mainly been spent and the homeowner money has hardly been touched. If this is a HOUSING crisis, why aren’t more resources being devoted to housing?</p>
<p>It comes down to an issue of morality, believe it or not, with homeowners expected to be moral and bankers not. Everybody blew it, but the homeowners are being disproportionately punished for their actions.</p>
<p>There is no morality issue in the bank bailout. Banks are having their capital boosted based not on whether they are well run or in some way “deserving,” but purely on the basis of whether they are viewed as being in three groups: 1) doomed; 2) capable of being saved through injecting government funds, or; 3) too big to be allowed to fail no matter how poorly run. This means the least-deserving banks tend to get the most help.</p>
<p>But the Obama Administration’s attempt to help mortgage holders is different. If you hope for government help in restructuring your mortgage you’d better not be behind in your payments. If you missed a mortgage payment months into this crisis, you are out of luck. If your mortgage isn’t guaranteed by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, you are out of luck. If your mortgage is jumbo you are out of luck. And if you owe more than 105 percent of the value of your home you are out of luck.&#8221;</p>
<p>Wrong, as usual, Bob.  These people ARE THE LUCKY ONES.  Anybody &#8220;helped&#8221; to stay in an under water mortgage is being turned into a debt slave for the rest of their lives.  Think about it.</p>
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		<title>By: I, Cringely » Blog Archive » Wall Street and Main Street Don’t Cross - Cringely on technology &#171; thak&#8217;s cool links</title>
		<link>http://www.cringely.com/2009/04/wall-street-and-main-street-don%e2%80%99t-cross/comment-page-1/#comment-2809</link>
		<dc:creator>I, Cringely » Blog Archive » Wall Street and Main Street Don’t Cross - Cringely on technology &#171; thak&#8217;s cool links</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 02:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cringely.com/?p=399#comment-2809</guid>
		<description>[...] I, Cringely » Wall Street and Main Street Don’t Cross.  While I don&#8217;t agree with his solution, I do agree with his assessment. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I, Cringely » Wall Street and Main Street Don’t Cross.  While I don&#8217;t agree with his solution, I do agree with his assessment. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Don't Get Your Knicker in a Wad Neddy</title>
		<link>http://www.cringely.com/2009/04/wall-street-and-main-street-don%e2%80%99t-cross/comment-page-1/#comment-2808</link>
		<dc:creator>Don't Get Your Knicker in a Wad Neddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cringely.com/?p=399#comment-2808</guid>
		<description>Here is some advice for ya Neddy, change the channel! If you don&#039;t like what your reading, read something else and keep your comments to yourself. No one gives a shite what you think anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is some advice for ya Neddy, change the channel! If you don&#8217;t like what your reading, read something else and keep your comments to yourself. No one gives a shite what you think anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: WLH</title>
		<link>http://www.cringely.com/2009/04/wall-street-and-main-street-don%e2%80%99t-cross/comment-page-1/#comment-2799</link>
		<dc:creator>WLH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 04:01:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cringely.com/?p=399#comment-2799</guid>
		<description>Please return to tech blogging, so we can get back to geeky techno arguments in these forums. This bank-bailout essay is just another piece of red meat that attracts the usual flies: 

1) Screw homeowners! They get what they deserve!
2) Hang Wall Street! They&#039;re corrupt!
3) Socialism! Socialism! Live Free Market or Die!
4) Obama&#039;s fault! Minority loans! Rush says so!
5) Bush&#039;s fault! But Obama&#039;s the same!
6) Gold Standard! Fractional reserve banking is evil! Ron Paul 2012!
7) My mortgage is ok, so you&#039;re all losers!
8) I am writing this from an underground bunker wearing a tin-foil hat and holding a shotgun, sitting atop a pile of silver barter coins and a decade&#039;s worth of Hustler magazines!

Call me nostalgic, but I much prefer the days when engineers argued over the effects of barometric pressure on a wireless router signal and the maximum thickness of drywall it could penetrate. You know, arguments where I could learn useful things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please return to tech blogging, so we can get back to geeky techno arguments in these forums. This bank-bailout essay is just another piece of red meat that attracts the usual flies: </p>
<p>1) Screw homeowners! They get what they deserve!<br />
2) Hang Wall Street! They&#8217;re corrupt!<br />
3) Socialism! Socialism! Live Free Market or Die!<br />
4) Obama&#8217;s fault! Minority loans! Rush says so!<br />
5) Bush&#8217;s fault! But Obama&#8217;s the same!<br />
6) Gold Standard! Fractional reserve banking is evil! Ron Paul 2012!<br />
7) My mortgage is ok, so you&#8217;re all losers!<br />
 <img src='http://www.cringely.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> I am writing this from an underground bunker wearing a tin-foil hat and holding a shotgun, sitting atop a pile of silver barter coins and a decade&#8217;s worth of Hustler magazines!</p>
<p>Call me nostalgic, but I much prefer the days when engineers argued over the effects of barometric pressure on a wireless router signal and the maximum thickness of drywall it could penetrate. You know, arguments where I could learn useful things.</p>
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		<title>By: TemporalBeing</title>
		<link>http://www.cringely.com/2009/04/wall-street-and-main-street-don%e2%80%99t-cross/comment-page-1/#comment-2790</link>
		<dc:creator>TemporalBeing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 18:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cringely.com/?p=399#comment-2790</guid>
		<description>Hoover did several things (http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/presidents/herberthoover/) - one of which was balance the budget, but another two of which were (a) kept spending on social programs, and (b) lowered taxes.  It is the combination that deepened the problem at that time; however, the situation Hoover was presented with then is not really that much different from what we are facing today - only different catalysts and different solutions will be needed.

The one solution that will not work is spending more money. One of the major catalysts now is debt - at all levels, from Federal gov&#039;t to personal; and the only way to resolve it is to lower it - pay it down.

Hoover&#039;s problem was not deflation due to paying down debt.

So, no - you can&#039;t really even begin to compare what I saying to what has been done in the past. Why? Because no one has every really done it - and no one has even bothered to try since the rise of Keynesian economics - especially since most now believe that debt is infinitely expandable (at least for the Federal gov&#039;t - it is not for anyone).

Ultimately we have the choice - pay down the debt (which we have to do regardless) and lift the burden on future generations for paying it back or suffering a fully collapsed economy (which will happen if it doesn&#039;t get paid back or we start/continue to take debt to pay back debt - something we&#039;re probably already doing) OR let it ride out until the Federal Gov&#039;t has to declare bankruptcy and the USD is worthless. If you thought the Great Depression was bad, look at what will happen if the US Federal Gov&#039;t has to declare bankruptcy. (And yes, it CAN happen.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hoover did several things (<a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/presidents/herberthoover/" rel="nofollow">http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/presidents/herberthoover/</a>) &#8211; one of which was balance the budget, but another two of which were (a) kept spending on social programs, and (b) lowered taxes.  It is the combination that deepened the problem at that time; however, the situation Hoover was presented with then is not really that much different from what we are facing today &#8211; only different catalysts and different solutions will be needed.</p>
<p>The one solution that will not work is spending more money. One of the major catalysts now is debt &#8211; at all levels, from Federal gov&#8217;t to personal; and the only way to resolve it is to lower it &#8211; pay it down.</p>
<p>Hoover&#8217;s problem was not deflation due to paying down debt.</p>
<p>So, no &#8211; you can&#8217;t really even begin to compare what I saying to what has been done in the past. Why? Because no one has every really done it &#8211; and no one has even bothered to try since the rise of Keynesian economics &#8211; especially since most now believe that debt is infinitely expandable (at least for the Federal gov&#8217;t &#8211; it is not for anyone).</p>
<p>Ultimately we have the choice &#8211; pay down the debt (which we have to do regardless) and lift the burden on future generations for paying it back or suffering a fully collapsed economy (which will happen if it doesn&#8217;t get paid back or we start/continue to take debt to pay back debt &#8211; something we&#8217;re probably already doing) OR let it ride out until the Federal Gov&#8217;t has to declare bankruptcy and the USD is worthless. If you thought the Great Depression was bad, look at what will happen if the US Federal Gov&#8217;t has to declare bankruptcy. (And yes, it CAN happen.)</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew S</title>
		<link>http://www.cringely.com/2009/04/wall-street-and-main-street-don%e2%80%99t-cross/comment-page-1/#comment-2782</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 00:36:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cringely.com/?p=399#comment-2782</guid>
		<description>People already have a reasonable bailout plan: Bankruptcy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People already have a reasonable bailout plan: Bankruptcy.</p>
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		<title>By: Art Kleiner</title>
		<link>http://www.cringely.com/2009/04/wall-street-and-main-street-don%e2%80%99t-cross/comment-page-1/#comment-2781</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Kleiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 21:01:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cringely.com/?p=399#comment-2781</guid>
		<description>I agree, these are among the fundamental causes. And one big question is whether the business leaders will see that it is in their interest to promote sustained, long-term demand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, these are among the fundamental causes. And one big question is whether the business leaders will see that it is in their interest to promote sustained, long-term demand.</p>
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